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	<title>Comments on: The Ladies Event: Redux</title>
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	<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/</link>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-9119</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-9119</guid>
		<description>...and I just saw there was already another post on this topic.  My bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and I just saw there was already another post on this topic.  My bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-9118</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-9118</guid>
		<description>Way, way late jumping into this debate, but felt the need to anyway...

You make some very good points, Annie - and they&#039;re very well taken.  But there are a couple of points I&#039;d like to make.

FIRST: I&#039;m not accusing you of doing this, but a lot of people talk about women being &quot;put&quot; in this event, as if it were mandatory for all women poker players to participate.  It may seem like an obvious point, but women are not forced into this event, nor are they confined to it.

If anyone&#039;s rights are being trampled here, it is those of the male poker population.  However, I believe it&#039;s always in poor taste for a dominant race/gender to cry foul in these situations.  The fact is, every tournament except for the Ladies Event is a &quot;men&#039;s event.&quot;  I would estimate that as many as 80% of tables at the WSOP are men only.

There are a lot of analogies being throw around in this debate.  I think a fairly good one is traditionally black colleges in America.  These sorts of instituations exist for the benefit of underserved, underrepresented segments of our population.  And while people from outside their target demographic have a constitutional right to be there, the value of the institution should ultimately be determined by the black community, and no one else.  It is not up to, and I don&#039;t think it would be acceptable for, white people to decide the &quot;value&quot; or the &quot;message it sends&quot;.

Similarly, it is not up to the dominant 90%+ of the poker population to say what is best for the oft objectified, oft mocked minority of women.  The poker community is overwhelmingly (though not uniformly) sexist.  Even when they try to be progressive, they fail (see: &quot;Year of the Woman&quot;).

SECOND: The mistake people often make when judging groups formed around race, gender, etc., is believing they&#039;re somehow based on a sense of superiority or inferiority. (See: &quot;Gender Gap&quot; argument.)  This is usually not the case.  It&#039;s about unity.  It&#039;s about sharing a common bond.  It&#039;s about having a safe environment.  It&#039;s about briefly escaping bias.  In the male-dominated poker world -- and most guys probably don&#039;t get this -- there is overwhelming pressure for women to act like men and/or accept the ubiquitous sexism.

I will absolutely concede that some people -- women included -- believe that the existence of a Ladies Event sends the message that women are inferior poker players.  Hell - I&#039;ll even concede that that was probably on the minds of WSOP officials when the event was created.  But that is NOT what it means to its thousand participants today.  And since when do we care what ignorant sexists think, anyway?  Anyone who really thinks the Ladies Event is evidence that women are inferior poker players obviously has bigger problems, and a fundamental misunderstanding of genetics.

THIRD: There is one very good reason to cancel the Ladies Event: the value of the bracelet (note: this is NOT to say the Ladies Event bracelet isn&#039;t &quot;real&quot;).  I completely undersatnd this argument.  If the WSOP wants to be a true poker championship, they should drastically reduce the number of events.  There should be a single championship for each discipline.  And all events should be open to whoever wants to enter.

HOWEVER - as long as the WSOP continues to roll out 58-event schedules, with a Seniors Event, a Casino Employees Event, full-ring PLOs, and ten $1,000-$1,500 NLHEs, (and definitely the proposed &quot;Newcomers Event&quot;,) I have a really hard time believing the value of the bracelet hinges on the Ladies Event, and, therefore, see no reason to do away with it.

You correctly noted that there would be an uproar if an African-Americans-only event was announced.  Considering their lack of representation in the poker community -- just like women&#039;s -- I would absoultely support this event, assuming the black poker community saw value in it.  That goes for LGBT, Latino, little people, or any other underrepresented segment, too.

IN CONCLUSION: I think a lot of people who are opposed to this tournament fall into a couple of categories:

a) Males (often white) who feel sorry for themselves because, goddamnit, their ancestors have lived in this country for damn near 300 years and haven&#039;t had the opportunity to be descriminated against once!  What an outrage!

b) People are are too caught up on the message the already-sexist segment of the poker community is receiving when they see events like this on the schedule.

Personally, as long as women see value in the ladies event; as long as the WSOP chooses quantity over quality (which, for the record, I don&#039;t blame them for); and as long as the poker community is dominated by males, I will absolutely support the Ladies Event 100%.

Let&#039;s never lose sight of the fact that being equal does not mean we&#039;re all the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way, way late jumping into this debate, but felt the need to anyway&#8230;</p>
<p>You make some very good points, Annie &#8211; and they&#8217;re very well taken.  But there are a couple of points I&#8217;d like to make.</p>
<p>FIRST: I&#8217;m not accusing you of doing this, but a lot of people talk about women being &#8220;put&#8221; in this event, as if it were mandatory for all women poker players to participate.  It may seem like an obvious point, but women are not forced into this event, nor are they confined to it.</p>
<p>If anyone&#8217;s rights are being trampled here, it is those of the male poker population.  However, I believe it&#8217;s always in poor taste for a dominant race/gender to cry foul in these situations.  The fact is, every tournament except for the Ladies Event is a &#8220;men&#8217;s event.&#8221;  I would estimate that as many as 80% of tables at the WSOP are men only.</p>
<p>There are a lot of analogies being throw around in this debate.  I think a fairly good one is traditionally black colleges in America.  These sorts of instituations exist for the benefit of underserved, underrepresented segments of our population.  And while people from outside their target demographic have a constitutional right to be there, the value of the institution should ultimately be determined by the black community, and no one else.  It is not up to, and I don&#8217;t think it would be acceptable for, white people to decide the &#8220;value&#8221; or the &#8220;message it sends&#8221;.</p>
<p>Similarly, it is not up to the dominant 90%+ of the poker population to say what is best for the oft objectified, oft mocked minority of women.  The poker community is overwhelmingly (though not uniformly) sexist.  Even when they try to be progressive, they fail (see: &#8220;Year of the Woman&#8221;).</p>
<p>SECOND: The mistake people often make when judging groups formed around race, gender, etc., is believing they&#8217;re somehow based on a sense of superiority or inferiority. (See: &#8220;Gender Gap&#8221; argument.)  This is usually not the case.  It&#8217;s about unity.  It&#8217;s about sharing a common bond.  It&#8217;s about having a safe environment.  It&#8217;s about briefly escaping bias.  In the male-dominated poker world &#8212; and most guys probably don&#8217;t get this &#8212; there is overwhelming pressure for women to act like men and/or accept the ubiquitous sexism.</p>
<p>I will absolutely concede that some people &#8212; women included &#8212; believe that the existence of a Ladies Event sends the message that women are inferior poker players.  Hell &#8211; I&#8217;ll even concede that that was probably on the minds of WSOP officials when the event was created.  But that is NOT what it means to its thousand participants today.  And since when do we care what ignorant sexists think, anyway?  Anyone who really thinks the Ladies Event is evidence that women are inferior poker players obviously has bigger problems, and a fundamental misunderstanding of genetics.</p>
<p>THIRD: There is one very good reason to cancel the Ladies Event: the value of the bracelet (note: this is NOT to say the Ladies Event bracelet isn&#8217;t &#8220;real&#8221;).  I completely undersatnd this argument.  If the WSOP wants to be a true poker championship, they should drastically reduce the number of events.  There should be a single championship for each discipline.  And all events should be open to whoever wants to enter.</p>
<p>HOWEVER &#8211; as long as the WSOP continues to roll out 58-event schedules, with a Seniors Event, a Casino Employees Event, full-ring PLOs, and ten $1,000-$1,500 NLHEs, (and definitely the proposed &#8220;Newcomers Event&#8221;,) I have a really hard time believing the value of the bracelet hinges on the Ladies Event, and, therefore, see no reason to do away with it.</p>
<p>You correctly noted that there would be an uproar if an African-Americans-only event was announced.  Considering their lack of representation in the poker community &#8212; just like women&#8217;s &#8212; I would absoultely support this event, assuming the black poker community saw value in it.  That goes for LGBT, Latino, little people, or any other underrepresented segment, too.</p>
<p>IN CONCLUSION: I think a lot of people who are opposed to this tournament fall into a couple of categories:</p>
<p>a) Males (often white) who feel sorry for themselves because, goddamnit, their ancestors have lived in this country for damn near 300 years and haven&#8217;t had the opportunity to be descriminated against once!  What an outrage!</p>
<p>b) People are are too caught up on the message the already-sexist segment of the poker community is receiving when they see events like this on the schedule.</p>
<p>Personally, as long as women see value in the ladies event; as long as the WSOP chooses quantity over quality (which, for the record, I don&#8217;t blame them for); and as long as the poker community is dominated by males, I will absolutely support the Ladies Event 100%.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s never lose sight of the fact that being equal does not mean we&#8217;re all the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Top 2010 Poker Player Stories &#8211; #28 Annie Duke and Daniel Negreanu &#171; Pablosplace.com</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-8746</link>
		<dc:creator>Top 2010 Poker Player Stories &#8211; #28 Annie Duke and Daniel Negreanu &#171; Pablosplace.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2010 18:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-8746</guid>
		<description>[...] Ladies event, and she tactfully laid out her arguments again in a blog post of her own titled “The Ladies Event: Redux”.  She mentions the common arguments that people have that are in favor of the event, and then [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ladies event, and she tactfully laid out her arguments again in a blog post of her own titled “The Ladies Event: Redux”.  She mentions the common arguments that people have that are in favor of the event, and then [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-7769</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 03:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-7769</guid>
		<description>Just think of the uproar there would be if there was some &quot;Men&#039;s Only&quot; event.  I think that says it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just think of the uproar there would be if there was some &#8220;Men&#8217;s Only&#8221; event.  I think that says it all.</p>
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		<title>By: Shuffle Up and Deal: 2010 World Series of Poker and Competitive Eating &#171; stacy b-log</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-7458</link>
		<dc:creator>Shuffle Up and Deal: 2010 World Series of Poker and Competitive Eating &#171; stacy b-log</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-7458</guid>
		<description>[...] championship and afterward in other open tournaments, where those who&#8217;d washed out ended up. Controversy bubbles within the poker community about what it means to have a &#8220;women only&amp;#8221... &#8211; and I actually debated with Annie Duke about it last year at the WSOP Academy poker school. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] championship and afterward in other open tournaments, where those who&#8217;d washed out ended up. Controversy bubbles within the poker community about what it means to have a &#8220;women only&amp;#8221&#8230; &#8211; and I actually debated with Annie Duke about it last year at the WSOP Academy poker school. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-7448</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 15:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-7448</guid>
		<description>Let it be, I love ladiespokertournment.its all about fun,I just enjoyed , You can see all the woman play poker together, pretty girls, granmas,  its so cut, There are mix game everywhere.Its dosen&#039;t matter win or lost, or woman can beat man .
We just want some fun. let it be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let it be, I love ladiespokertournment.its all about fun,I just enjoyed , You can see all the woman play poker together, pretty girls, granmas,  its so cut, There are mix game everywhere.Its dosen&#8217;t matter win or lost, or woman can beat man .<br />
We just want some fun. let it be.</p>
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		<title>By: Robbie</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-7413</link>
		<dc:creator>Robbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 19:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-7413</guid>
		<description>Anne - If you are SO against the Ladies Event then why did you sponsor female UB pros in it? 
You are such a poor excuse for a female...especially a female poker player!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anne &#8211; If you are SO against the Ladies Event then why did you sponsor female UB pros in it?<br />
You are such a poor excuse for a female&#8230;especially a female poker player!</p>
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		<title>By: Napkins</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-7357</link>
		<dc:creator>Napkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 04:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-7357</guid>
		<description>Annie,
Not attacking you here, but I have one quick question. If you are against the ladies event because it is for ladies only and because of the 14th amendment, then why do you call yourself the best female poker play. Why not just the best poker player? i don&#039;t see Ivey calling himself the best African American poker player. Just think of the outrage if that happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Annie,<br />
Not attacking you here, but I have one quick question. If you are against the ladies event because it is for ladies only and because of the 14th amendment, then why do you call yourself the best female poker play. Why not just the best poker player? i don&#8217;t see Ivey calling himself the best African American poker player. Just think of the outrage if that happened.</p>
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		<title>By: ace</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-7354</link>
		<dc:creator>ace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 00:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-7354</guid>
		<description>Hi, I&#039;ve read both sides of this issue and while both have their points, I have an interesting solution to it. Why not have both a ladies and mens tournament running at the same time then the final winners of each tournament square off in a heads up battle for a real WSOP bracelet with the recognition of who played better poker in the tournament...men or the ladies...what do you think of this Annie? :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I&#8217;ve read both sides of this issue and while both have their points, I have an interesting solution to it. Why not have both a ladies and mens tournament running at the same time then the final winners of each tournament square off in a heads up battle for a real WSOP bracelet with the recognition of who played better poker in the tournament&#8230;men or the ladies&#8230;what do you think of this Annie? <img src='http://www.annieduke.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Backfromthedead</title>
		<link>http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-7339</link>
		<dc:creator>Backfromthedead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.annieduke.com/?p=984#comment-7339</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s no secret DN has had a hard on for you for years, I think your P.O.V. is respectable and your refusal to defend what is essentially a marketing tool for your blog/career is the way to go. DN is just having a bad WSOP, the boy is fit to be tied. Truth be told DN is probably just upset because he sees himself as The Greatest female poker player in the world. Good luck at the WSOP this year in whatever events you play in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s no secret DN has had a hard on for you for years, I think your P.O.V. is respectable and your refusal to defend what is essentially a marketing tool for your blog/career is the way to go. DN is just having a bad WSOP, the boy is fit to be tied. Truth be told DN is probably just upset because he sees himself as The Greatest female poker player in the world. Good luck at the WSOP this year in whatever events you play in.</p>
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